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morbidmike
(@morbidmike)
Estimable Member

This is an assumption with no real figures to back it.

I've given you the exact real figures to back it. For every two months of gametime bought and used through WoW tokens they've sold two months of gametime for the price of three months of gametime. You're not calling that a LOT more money?
With the money grabbing scandals of Blizzard of the past years it is very naive to think adding WoW tokens is done for anything but the money.
...

So when I'm buying Bitcoins for Dollars, Dollars which I've bought with Euros, I'm not buying Bitcoins for my Euros? And they actually can create gold with the WoW token, because you always get the amount of gold you put it up for. Even if the price drops. We just have to hope it balances out with the amount of times it sells lower than the current going rate. And that Blizz isn't fucking with the prices, because we can't actually see the current price, only the price WoW is suggesting for us.

Here's your reasoning:
1) People will bot for gold
2) People will sell that gold for real life money
3) Blizzard can/will not stop these people botting for that gold
4) Blizzard selling WoW tokens will stop or ameliorate the botting because A) players can now buy WoW tokens for real life money and B) players can then buy WoW gold using those WoW tokens.
TLDR: There is no longer a need to buy gold from gold farmers so they will stop botting for gold.

Here's the flaw in your reasoning:
1) This only puts an upper limit at the pricetag for gold, so it could be less profitable to sell gold (depending on the price of token/gold), but still profitable
2) Gold farmers can bot for gold, buy WoW tokens and sell the gametime for real money (you can gift Blizzard account balance). And yes, this is being done.

WoW tokens will make it harder for gold farmers. But no, WoW tokens will not stop the botters. In fact if Blizzard were to actually put in the resources to spot and ban botters there would be a lot less gold going into the system. The gold botters create will now be going into the system, and used to trade WoW tokens, instead of being removed from the system by accounts being banned. Those are the facts. WoW tokens are a very lousy "solution" to gold farming and are detrimental to the market. And because it's making Blizz money, there's no reason for them to look for a real solution that would cost time and money, like investing in an actually decent anti botting measure. It's not hard for humans to spot botters but Blizzard won't hire game masters to continuously check the most common botting places. Because that would cost them money. WoW tokens earn them money.

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Topic starter Posted : 02/03/2020 8:52 am
Stfuppercut
(@stfuppercut)
Noble Member

Here's your reasoning:
1) People will bot for gold
2) People will sell that gold for real life money
3) Blizzard can/will not stop these people botting for that gold
4) Blizzard selling WoW tokens will stop or ameliorate the botting because A) players can now buy WoW tokens for real life money and B) players can then buy WoW gold using those WoW tokens.
TLDR: There is no longer a need to buy gold from gold farmers so they will stop botting for gold.

Close, but I disagree with 4. Selling wow tokens will not stop botting or gold sellers. It will disrupt the market and create a very competitive space that very few people will find value in running bots or selling black gold. The overhead is high in contrast to the low profit margins and the high risk values, so many people wont bother. This wont eliminate botting, as we can see in retail, it will dramatically reduce botting.
Here's the flaw in your reasoning:
1) This only puts an upper limit at the pricetag for gold, so it could be less profitable to sell gold (depending on the price of token/gold), but still profitable
2) Gold farmers can bot for gold, buy WoW tokens and sell the gametime for real money (you can gift Blizzard account balance). And yes, this is being done.

1) the marketplace is dynamic and gold will fluctuate within the market. the token establishes the fair market value and the black market is forced to compete with that number. If the black market wants to compete, they need to drastically reduce their price to account for risk (and they will). Players will buy into that black gold because it is still such an incredible value... which will in turn force the fair market value of gold down due to decreased demand. this cycle continues until black gold has virtually no profit margins remaining.

2) not only can they, but they have been doing this for years. but back to point 3, tokens dont eliminate botting, they just dramatically reduce it. With the anti cheat we have in place now working in conjunction with the token, botting and gold selling is demonstratively reduced to such a point that it has a low impact on the game.
WoW tokens will make it harder for gold farmers. But no, WoW tokens will not stop the botters. In fact if Blizzard were to actually put in the resources to spot and ban botters there would be a lot less gold going into the system.

Agreed. Botting wont stop, but it will be reduced dramatically. Gold selling wont stop but it will be reduced. This still doesnt even address other black sales like boosts, account sharing/selling/trading and other real money trades. This only addresses one small problem... But... It works. As we can see in retail.

See my comments above:

Blizz has never been able to squish botting. I was linking bots 8 months ago during my initial argument for the token and even by showing people that bots exist within retail, the majority of users scoffed at the idea that bots would/could exist within Classic.

Even with the token, bots will persist. This is not about eliminating bots, its about drastically reducing the quantity of bots and putting pressure on the black market for gold, which Blizzard has achieved with the token.

The token is a smart move once the game demands its implementation. The Chinese game has demanded its implementation. The US/Euro markets may follow this trend eventually. The token is an incredibly impactful tool that should be used with discretion. The token comes with a whole host of its own issues and acknowledges the game must be in a fractured state to merit its implementation.

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Posted : 04/03/2020 5:52 am
Selexin
(@selexin)
Prominent Member

Hey, the token debate!

I am in my little raid-logging bubble at the moment. So I just login, farm some manual crowd pummelers and do my profession cooldowns then log off until raid night(s). I am 8/8 BWL as of last week and getting pretty rapidly geared up as a Feral tank. BWL is easy, but still enjoyable to progress with friends.

I see stuff about gold selling, and have heard about token in China - but it has such minimal impact on my limited play schedule that I'm really not phased one way or another. I am really looking forward to ZG/Dragons/AQ/Naxx to come with a decent guild of RL mates and randoms.

Hope everyone is doing well and still enjoying Classic. I wish I had a bit more time to level alts or grind gold for more consumes, but such is life

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Posted : 04/03/2020 8:28 pm
Stfuppercut
(@stfuppercut)
Noble Member

Hey, the token debate!

Welcome back LoL

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Posted : 04/03/2020 9:55 pm
Noodles
(@captaincuccck)
Active Member

I see stuff about gold selling, and have heard about token in China - but it has such minimal impact on my limited play schedule that I'm really not phased one way or another. I am really looking forward to ZG/Dragons/AQ/Naxx to come with a decent guild of RL mates and randoms.

Yeah doesn't affect me at all, just hope it mainly stays in china and not in the NA servers.
Looking forward to actually fully attempting Naxx this time around too!!

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Posted : 05/03/2020 3:35 am
shwan124
(@shwan124)
New Member

The token was in the game files before the game released and this was discussed months ago... The more experienced crowd was predicting this as a possibility, the more naive crowd was covering their eyes and whispering "no changes". My hope is that the NA game doesnt reach the threshold to validate adding the token, because if it does, the addition of the token is insignificant in contrast to shear quantity of players who must be botting and buying gold outside of the auto clicker game. The addition of a token acknowledges much larger issues in play but also acts as an excellent tool to combat certain behaviors. I am not 100% pro token, but I can understand the necessity in using it and applaud Blizz for making the tough decisions that the emotional playerbase cant understand.

Blizz has never been able to squish botting. I was linking bots 8 months ago during my initial argument for the token and even by showing people that bots exist within retail, the majority of users scoffed at the idea that bots would/could exist within Classic. The reality here is that gold is valuable in Classic and the barrier to entry to create an account in Classic is lower than retail (Classic only requires a sub) and the demographic of users who play Classic are older and have less time and more disposable income

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Posted : 26/03/2020 11:44 pm
Stfuppercut
(@stfuppercut)
Noble Member

Blizz has never been able to squish botting. I was linking bots 8 months ago during my initial argument for the token and even by showing people that bots exist within retail, the majority of users scoffed at the idea that bots would/could exist within Classic. The reality here is that gold is valuable in Classic and the barrier to entry to create an account in Classic is lower than retail (Classic only requires a sub) and the demographic of users who play Classic are older and have less time and more disposable income

This sounds familiar...

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Posted : 27/03/2020 7:32 pm
morbidmike
(@morbidmike)
Estimable Member

Yeah I dug up this thread because yeah, the wow token makes botting worse, not better 😉

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Topic starter Posted : 18/06/2020 10:03 am
teebling
(@teebling)
Noble Member

I wonder if he ever gets tired of pulling that face on every single youtube thumbnail LoL

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Posted : 18/06/2020 10:37 am
Margaretady
(@margaretady)
New Member

Hey, the token debate!

I am in my little raid-logging bubble at the moment. So I just login, farm some manual crowd pummelers and do my profession cooldowns then log off until raid night(s). I am 8/8 BWL as of last week and getting pretty rapidly geared up as a Feral tank. BWL is easy, but still enjoyable to progress with friends.
I see stuff about gold selling, and have heard about token in China - but it has such minimal impact on my limited play schedule that I'm really not phased one way or another. I am really looking forward to ZG/Dragons/AQ/Naxx to come with a decent guild of RL mates and randoms auto clickers.
Hope everyone is doing well and still enjoying Classic. I wish I had a bit more time to level alts or grind gold for more consumes, but such is life

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Posted : 09/09/2020 10:20 pm
Taladril
(@taladril)
Member Admin

It's probably not popular to say but the token is one thing I wouldn't have minded seeing in classic. Bots and gold farmers was inevitable and I would have rather had control of that with tokens than the spam I get in my inbox and everything else.

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Posted : 10/09/2020 8:53 am
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