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AoE Grinding 20+ Mage - Will it be possible with layering?  

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Anonymous
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Hi guys,

I was wondering what your thoughts are on the viability of AoE grinding as a mage when classic launches?
The servers will, of course, be heavily populated at first especially the starting zones, but with layering, this might not be an issue.

How about AoE grinding later on in some of the 20+ zones like Duskwallow Marsh will this be a possibility or will it simply be too contested to be a viable way of leveling near launch?

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Escalotes
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I think I speak for everyone horde side when I say please don't grind the swamp of sorrows quest murlocs.

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Anonymous
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Escalotes I will leave your precious murlocs alone don't worry.

However do you think it will be viable to AoE or will vanilla simply be too crowded for that?

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Escalotes
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Andemand you can tag users using the Mention command in brackets []

IIRC mage grinding has always been a thing, you just need to find a zone that isn't too taken up. As long as you're going into it before phase 2 goes live you should be fine, though you may have to go to some unconventional areas to do so.

Also, tips mentioned that many abilities in Classic aren't present on private servers; for example, fire rocs in Tanaris actually cast fireball so gathering them is more difficult since they stop chasing you to cast.

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Stfuppercut
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Hi guys,

I was wondering what your thoughts are on the viability of AoE grinding as a mage when classic launches?
The servers will, of course, be heavily populated at first especially the starting zones, but with layering, this might not be an issue.

How about AoE grinding later on in some of the 20+ zones like Duskwallow Marsh will this be a possibility or will it simply be too contested to be a viable way of leveling near launch?

We don't know the specifics of layering, but based on a preliminary look at their definition, if you can find a way to consistently manipulate the layer you are in, AoE grinding might be the fastest leveling strategy we have ever seen. This has potential to set new speed running times in my opinion.

Typically AoE grind spots consist of 1-2 excellent pulls and then you use 2-3 filler small pulls in the area to burn time while you wait for your large pulls to respawn. They are also in areas that questers wont typically be traversing. If you could get ahead of the pack and then systematically hop layers to reset your 1-2 large pulls this could be insane. Regardless though, having several layers to choose between will inevitably reduce your grinding competition so there is no doubt that AoE leveling will be easier and more viable with layering.

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Selexin
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I think the main challenge will be finding a spot that isn't busy on all layers - then once layers are gone it will be a more straightforward battle for dominance over an area.

As we have not experienced the Classic WoW launch meta we don't really know what to expect. We don't know how many servers there will be, what their expected population will be, or how long layering will be active (and it's impacts). With all of these unknowns, AoE grinding could be fantastic, or fantastically impossible.

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Stfuppercut
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I think the main challenge will be finding a spot that isn't busy on all layers - then once layers are gone it will be a more straightforward battle for dominance over an area.

You wont need to. Even if you find a spot that isnt busy, which is more likely with layers capping at 3k, grinding will be incredibly viable. The advantage of layers is that you will either be able to hop layers to find that vacant patch, use layers to reduce your overall competition as players are divided by layers OR in the most extreme cases, you will be able to consistently manipulate layer hopping to simultaneously farm multiple layers. Regardless of layerings implementation, it will have a drastic impact on AoE grinding/farming. It can ONLY make grinding and AoE farming easier.
As we have not experienced the Classic WoW launch meta we don't really know what to expect. We don't know how many servers there will be, what their expected population will be, or how long layering will be active (and it's impacts).

Totally agree with this point. These variables will completely influence to what degree layering will optimize AoE farming and grinding. Layering will make grinding and AoE farming easier and more effective, the questions is, by how much?
With all of these unknowns, AoE grinding could be fantastic, or fantastically impossible.

It cant be worse.

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Selexin
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It cant be worse.

Unless you end up wasting time searching layers I guess.

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Stfuppercut
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It cant be worse.

Unless you end up wasting time searching layers I guess.

Thats the beauty. It doesnt take any time. For those of us who can type and play simultaneously, it wont stunt efficiency one bit. This is especially true for mages who spend half of their time AoEing and half of their time drinking.

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Selexin
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It doesnt take any time.

Source? LoL

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Stfuppercut
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It doesnt take any time.

Source? LoL

"if we party up for example you may still see a transition there (relating to players phasing in or out while switching between layers), because we want to make sure if you are creating a group you will still be able to play together." Omar Gonzalez, Senior Software Engineer for Classic (Classic WoW Summit, 2019)

Omar goes on to talk about sticky layers and how their technology will aim to keep players together in layers that are persistent to each continent. My question is, what if players don't want to stay in the same layer? It would seem there are no restrictions, at least none that have been mentioned to prohibit players from swapping their layers. As you can imagine, this would reinforce the divide that layering has placed in the game... This could (will) become a problem when players are incentivized to switch layers. This would be true in the case of an AoE mage who is leveling. But how can you communicate with others to initiate a layer swap?

-Discord communities of players. Most people will be sitting in discord with VOIP access to several users at any given time.
-Chat channels ingame like /1 /2 if these chat channels do spill over into multiple layers. If they don't, this will cause alternate issues and will actually reinforce the divide that layering will cause
-Friends list, with Battlenet integration
-Secondary accounts used for invites to hop layers
-Potential ingame addons???

These are just off the top of my head. If layer hopping is as simple as a group invite, which is what Omar says, this shouldn't be difficult to manipulate. It will work the exact same as a group of players looking for a rare spawn ID in an instance. Drop group, enter instance, find the mob, send invites out to the rest. BAM.

If we are to believe that players will be 'sticky' and will trend towards one layer, based on guild etc, layering could be EEEEVEN easier to manipulate. Example: Jump layers, ask in general for a guild invite, get guild invite. You are now stuck to a separate layer than your friend who was guilded in the previous layer. You can now invite eachother to party to hot swap layers or leave party to return to your guild layer. We dont know the specifics of layering. What we do know is that the layers have a max of 3k players, meaning you will NEVER have as much competition as was present during high cap retail vanilla servers or private servers. We also know that other layers exist and you will be able to transition (we dont know the specifics of how easy this will be). This means grinding can not be more challenging for a leveling AoE mage. Less competition, with a 3k player cap and the potential to swap layers can only make this easier. Best case, layering provides an insignificant advantage to leveling mages. Worst case, we see record breaking speed runs as AoE mages. The truth probably lies somewhere in between.

Based on what we currently KNOW, layer hopping seems incredibly simple. Your source to suggest otherwise?

edit: spelling

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Selexin
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Based on what we currently KNOW, layering hopping seems incredibly simple. Your source to suggest otherwise?

Oh I don't have a source to the contrary, and now that you have provided a source I am happy to concede that layer hopping will be instant, easy, abusable and rampantly destroying the vanilla feel (which is a shame). So much of the layering argument has been conjecture and assumptions, so with sources we can actually accept things and move forward.

I guess I'm in some weird niche who doesn't want to waste time/energy trying to exploit the game, but just play it like it was intended (Classic). Gross, I know. I'm playing for enjoyment, not to eFlex my AoE grinding/Rare Spawn farming abilities. I'll just quest with friends, do some BGs/Dungeons and slowly make my way to 60. I'm guessing layer abuse is maybe more something that will be a streamer fan meta? Not sure, I don't get it. I don't want to grief people in PvP by jumping layers, I don't want to AoE farm in multiple layers, if I don't see a rare elite, ok I'll keep going.

If further beta/stress testing shows PvP griefing through layers is common and unavoidable, I guess I'll roll on a PvE server.

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Stfuppercut
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Oh I don't have a source to the contrary, and now that you have provided a source I am happy to concede that layer hopping will be instant, easy, abusable and rampantly destroying the vanilla feel (which is a shame). So much of the layering argument has been conjecture and assumptions, so with sources we can actually accept things and move forward.

I thought you had watched the videos we were all discussing and read the Blizzard releases. I should have sourced earlier to give full context and to obtain credibility. I kind of treat this forum pretty casually... Usually just post on my phone throughout the day, but I could have communicated my point in a better way. Noted.
I guess I'm in some weird niche who doesn't want to waste time/energy trying to exploit the game...

Exploiting layering will save time and energy.
I'm guessing layer abuse is maybe more something that will be a streamer fan meta? Not sure, I don't get it. I don't want to grief people in PvP by jumping layers, I don't want to AoE farm in multiple layers, if I don't see a rare elite, ok I'll keep going.

And you wont have to. Classic is not a race. Some of us will choose to sprint through the obstacle course, because thats how we prefer to play, but we will all end up at the other side together eventually.
If further beta/stress testing shows PvP griefing through layers is common and unavoidable, I guess I'll roll on a PvE server.

I doubt that layering will increase griefing. If sharding has showed us anything, it's that multiple shards or layers actually decrease any one players impact on the world. Layers contain you. Layers isolate misery and those who attempt to create it. Can it be used to grief or to avoid being camped? Yes. But overall it will just invalidate those who wanted to make an impact. You get together a HUGE raid of 40 players and raid a major city! You're technically only raiding on layer 4... None of the other 3 layers even know you exist. A raid of phantoms. You want to control Nessy's in STV! Go for it, the other guys will just bounce to one of the other layers and avoid you.

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Selexin
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Exploiting layering will save time and energy.

I don't think you understand, I won't spend my time or energy exploiting. Exploiting wouldn't be exploiting if it didn't give you an advantage, but that wasn't my point at all.

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Stfuppercut
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Exploiting layering will save time and energy.

I don't think you understand, I won't spend my time or energy exploiting. Exploiting wouldn't be exploiting if it didn't give you an advantage, but that wasn't my point at all.

I understood =). I was just giving you an opposing perspective. From your viewpoint you wont be spending any time or energy exploiting because it only serves to detract from your experience. But for those of us who plan to game the system and gain ANY advantage we can, we value the time and energy we save by increasing our efficiency. Though our conversation is starting to derail from the OP's original question about AoE farming on low level mages.

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