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Orc vs Tauren Shaman for PvP

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Inxotep
(@inxotep)
New Member

Looking to make an alt, and I want to play a class I never had at max/high level back in the days, I've decided on shaman.

I'd like to play a tauren, but everyone rolls Orc for the stun resist, I hate that hardiness is so strong but thats just how it is. I don't like the idea of winning because I passively resisted their stuns, bloodfury isn't that attractive to me on a healing class.. That said, I love orc female animations, and animations are important as I'll be looking at my character a lot.

Taurens are interesting with higher hp, increased melee range(good for enha), and war stomp into a chain lightning + shock + fire nova is just deadly AF. The bigger hitbox prob sucks for ele/resto, but you could always chug noggenfogger/deviate to negate that.

I like tauren racials more, but also like orc animations more than taurens.. so I'm unsure what to pick, is orc really the be all end all for PvP?

How accurate was hardiness on privates compared to classic? The thing with hardiness is that when it fails to save you, you have nothing as an orc (wep skill irrelevant in pvp, bloodfury meh) compared to a tauren (pvp stam setbonus racial, longer reach, warstomp gibs)

I could make up for hardiness with FAP/LAP's, but could also acquire tidal as an orc to make up for WS.

Thoughts?

Quote
Topic starter Posted : 11/11/2019 12:35 pm
Stfuppercut
(@stfuppercut)
Noble Member

You answered your own question. Hardiness is broken. Orc for PvP.

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Posted : 11/11/2019 12:49 pm
Inxotep
(@inxotep)
New Member

You answered your own question. Hardiness is broken. Orc for PvP.

No I laid out the pros and cons for both, I'm curious how hardiness is compared to privates because it was broken on the private I played on (yes, that would be retro)

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Topic starter Posted : 11/11/2019 12:57 pm
Stfuppercut
(@stfuppercut)
Noble Member

You answered your own question. Hardiness is broken. Orc for PvP.

No I laid out the pros and cons for both, I'm curious how hardiness is compared to privates because it was broken on the private I played on (yes, that would be retro)

~30% stun resist is ~30% stun resist. I played on many blizzlike private servers (not retro), and I have two level 60 alliance toons in Classic and I can tell you, fighting Orcs feels the same.

If you are min/maxing for PvP you will roll Orc shaman. If you are choosing based on fun time stuff and cute aesthetics, that is a subjective choice and I cant really weigh in on your decision.

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Posted : 11/11/2019 2:58 pm
Jpy
 Jpy
(@jpy)
Reputable Member

Orc is the race of the gods.

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Posted : 11/11/2019 4:43 pm
Erik
 Erik
(@erik)
Reputable Member

Orc for PvP, hands down, no matter what spec you are going.

For Elemental, Tauren can be fun to line up bursts with War Stomp (Hardiness still outweighs stomp though).

Tauren also look cooler

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Posted : 11/11/2019 10:47 pm
Jalapeno
(@jalapeno)
Eminent Member

Play the one that you think looks cooler and feels better to play, what race you choose is not going to decide whether you are having fun or not.

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Posted : 11/11/2019 11:40 pm
Caperfin
(@caperfin)
Reputable Member

Looking to make an alt, and I want to play a class I never had at max/high level back in the days, I've decided on shaman.

I'd like to play a tauren, but everyone rolls Orc for the stun resist, I hate that hardiness is so strong but thats just how it is. I don't like the idea of winning because I passively resisted their stuns, bloodfury isn't that attractive to me on a healing class.. That said, I love orc female animations, and animations are important as I'll be looking at my character a lot.

Taurens are interesting with higher hp, increased melee range(good for enha), and war stomp into a chain lightning + shock + fire nova is just deadly AF. The bigger hitbox prob sucks for ele/resto, but you could always chug noggenfogger/deviate to negate that.

I like tauren racials more, but also like orc animations more than taurens.. so I'm unsure what to pick, is orc really the be all end all for PvP?

How accurate was hardiness on privates compared to classic? The thing with hardiness is that when it fails to save you, you have nothing as an orc (wep skill irrelevant in pvp, bloodfury meh) compared to a tauren (pvp stam setbonus racial, longer reach, warstomp gibs)

I could make up for hardiness with FAP/LAP's, but could also acquire tidal as an orc to make up for WS.

Thoughts?

What type of PvP are you looking to do? (premade or randoms)

ReplyQuote
Posted : 12/11/2019 3:16 am
Inxotep
(@inxotep)
New Member

Looking to make an alt, and I want to play a class I never had at max/high level back in the days, I've decided on shaman.

I'd like to play a tauren, but everyone rolls Orc for the stun resist, I hate that hardiness is so strong but thats just how it is. I don't like the idea of winning because I passively resisted their stuns, bloodfury isn't that attractive to me on a healing class.. That said, I love orc female animations, and animations are important as I'll be looking at my character a lot.

Taurens are interesting with higher hp, increased melee range(good for enha), and war stomp into a chain lightning + shock + fire nova is just deadly AF. The bigger hitbox prob sucks for ele/resto, but you could always chug noggenfogger/deviate to negate that.

I like tauren racials more, but also like orc animations more than taurens.. so I'm unsure what to pick, is orc really the be all end all for PvP?

How accurate was hardiness on privates compared to classic? The thing with hardiness is that when it fails to save you, you have nothing as an orc (wep skill irrelevant in pvp, bloodfury meh) compared to a tauren (pvp stam setbonus racial, longer reach, warstomp gibs)

I could make up for hardiness with FAP/LAP's, but could also acquire tidal as an orc to make up for WS.

Thoughts?

What type of PvP are you looking to do? (premade or randoms)

World PvP and random bgs

ReplyQuote
Topic starter Posted : 12/11/2019 6:46 am
Caperfin
(@caperfin)
Reputable Member

World PvP and random bgs

I would suggest Orc.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 12/11/2019 7:25 am
Justbe
(@justbe)
Estimable Member

When it comes to Shaman I am always an advocate for Tauren. I mean, it's true what everyone is saying. Orc Stun Resist is OpOp. But it also random. But it CAN definitely save your ass against a rogue.

However, the worst matchup shaman has is vs warrior. If a warrior gets a hamstring off you and you don't have any FAPs or anything else to break the slow, it pretty much means you're dead, because shaman have no hard CC in their kits, they only have soft CC in slows.

This is why I like tauren specifically for shaman. Their racial (on a 2 min cd) fills that gap in their kit. It can be argued that you don't need the warstomp, and you probably don't, because there are trinkets and other items that can provide stuns.

Also, this might be a bias thing because I just am not too big of a fan of orcs honestly.

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Posted : 12/11/2019 7:30 am
Vlostek
(@vlostek)
Trusted Member

While objectively Hardiness is a great pvp skill, you won’t feel it that much when that ally’s stun lands.

Meanwhile, warstomp gives a stun to a class that has none, even in talents.

I know i’m the minority but i say it’s a pretty even fight.

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Posted : 12/11/2019 8:09 am
morbidmike
(@morbidmike)
Estimable Member

Go with Tauren tbh. For the War Stomp combos you mentioned (here's another one: War Stomp a Rogue or Hunter with Evasion/Deterrence and then hit Stormstrike :D)
Hardiness is great but as a Shaman, are people really going to be focusing you? Or are they going to be focusing that low armor Priest standing right next to you? Think about what stuns are used for. To lock down a kill target. You won't be the kill target because you're way too tanky. Hardiness is only useful if people are putting their stuns on you. Here's the kind of CC you will be receiving 90% of the time: Fear, Polymorph and (if you can call them CC) Viper Sting and Mana Burn. Because they're not going to kill you, they're going to take you out of the fight while they kill the teammate you're supporting.

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Posted : 12/11/2019 11:08 am
Stfuppercut
(@stfuppercut)
Noble Member

While objectively Hardiness is a great pvp skill, you won’t feel it that much when that ally’s stun lands.

And you also wont make note of non-events. When youre resisting ~30% of all the stuns on you (every class has a stun), you probably wont make note of that. You will make note of the 70% that do land and your confirmation bias will lead you to believe that Hardiness isnt worthwhile. And even though taurens are awful and even though warstomp is underwhelming, you will occasionally combo it well and get a big payoff. And even though that warstomp will only help you in a small fraction of situations compared to the constant, passive devastation that hardiness provides, most uninformed players will still favor a racial that they push because it Feels good. It Feels meaningful. It Feels rewarding. Even if its really bad in comparison.

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Posted : 12/11/2019 11:08 am
Stfuppercut
(@stfuppercut)
Noble Member

Go with Tauren tbh. For the War Stomp combos you mentioned (here's another one: War Stomp a Rogue or Hunter with Evasion/Deterrence and then hit Stormstrike :D)
Hardiness is great but as a Shaman, are people really going to be focusing you? Or are they going to be focusing that low armor Priest standing right next to you? Think about what stuns are used for. To lock down a kill target. You won't be the kill target because you're way too tanky. Hardiness is only useful if people are putting their stuns on you. Here's the kind of CC you will be receiving 90% of the time: Fear, Polymorph and (if you can call them CC) Viper Sting and Mana Burn. Because they're not going to kill you, they're going to take you out of the fight while they kill the teammate you're supporting.

Fights are far more dynamic than this. First of all, OP said he wants to do world PvP and random BG's. His team isnt going to be peeling for him... He wont spend much time in a traditional premade vs premade situation. Secondly, there is the plan - which is simply to vipersting the shaman and then there is the reality where a bunch of untrained buffoons are running all over a BG attacking everything thats red and throwing grenades all over the place. OP is going to spend 90%+ of his time in BG's with limited to no support (he will occasionally bump into a good player in the random BG scene), running around on a shaman. Hardiness will provide OP more value overall.

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Posted : 12/11/2019 11:12 am
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