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Problems with modern MMOs?

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fendor
(@fendor)
Estimable Member

Regarding what I said above, I don't believe that Classic is being brought by trustworthy company so I am very sceptical about what we are gonna get as a result.

I really hope you are wrong here, otherwise, I would be very sad ๐Ÿ™ The demo was amazing for me, even with all the minor imprecision, I really had a blast (finally all the rare in the correct position!). After Diablo Immortal everything is possible ๐Ÿ˜€ But the team working on WoW Classic seems genuinely in love with the game and all the blue response to some silly questions (like the reward in retail if you earn them in classic) still let me have some hope!

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Posted : 13/12/2018 1:37 am
Faendor
(@faendor)
Reputable Member

Yea there certainly still is some hope for it but with increasing number of comfirmed changes, it wavers.
Either way I'm still hyped for it, just in a weird way I quess.

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Posted : 13/12/2018 2:21 am
Firelord
(@firelord)
Estimable Member

My biggest annoyance with MMO's today are usually the convenience aspect. Both things that are put into the game (like World of Warcraft) and others that you can buy through cash shops (Guild Wars 2, as en example.)

World of Warcraft got a huge amount of convenience, with flying mounts, portals, hearthstone cooldown nerf, teleports, and other menu-teleports, as well as other removal of items to make people reach a gratification need much faster.

Guild Wars 2 pushes a lot of stuff in their cash shop. Bag space, bank space, regeant stack size increase, teleports, whatnot. It's a "Pay-for-time" or "Pay-for-convenience" which companies picked up rather than "Pay-to-win" because it looks better.

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Posted : 13/12/2018 4:20 pm
teebling
(@teebling)
Noble Member

It's a "Pay-for-time" or "Pay-for-convenience" which companies picked up rather than "Pay-to-win" because it looks better.

Yes, and then rephrased as 'Quality of Life', which sounds even more innocuous!

Also welcome back FL ! Smile

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Posted : 13/12/2018 6:07 pm
Faendor
(@faendor)
Reputable Member

Retail WoW is a joke. The only thing that holds it together is the brand and the people too weak to realize that.

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Posted : 14/12/2018 3:35 am
Firelord
(@firelord)
Estimable Member

Also welcome back FL ! Smile A Call to Arms!

Retail WoW is a joke. The only thing that holds it together is the brand and the people too weak to realize that.
Can be a lot of people who prefer that sort of gameplay, but I know I am not one of them, and it seems like a lot of people are feeling the same these days with the amount of thread popping up on other websites about their dislike of the game.

Not to mention Asmongold himself who (I personally can enjoy watching every now and then) have voiced his opinion about the game and its poor state, and he is a huge fan of the game still.

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Posted : 14/12/2018 5:13 am
Faendor
(@faendor)
Reputable Member

If he wasn't streaming wow for living, he would've probably quit as well.

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Posted : 14/12/2018 6:05 am
Firelord
(@firelord)
Estimable Member

If he wasn't streaming wow for living, he would've probably quit as well.

I really don't know. I mean, he is streaming Dark Souls at the moment and will focus on other games as well that is not World of Warcraft.

He usually says that World of Warcraft is still the best MMO out there, even if it is bad at the moment. It sorts of saddens me that he believes that himself, because he really is losing out on so much to actually believe that this is the case.

As much as I enjoy watching him, I really think he's far too deep in the rabbit hole to let go of it. He can't quit.

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Posted : 14/12/2018 11:06 am
Faendor
(@faendor)
Reputable Member

Might be true.

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Posted : 14/12/2018 3:37 pm
Nymis
(@nymis)
Reputable Member

It's not the mechanics or things like that which keep it together in my opinion. Objectively, there are so many MMOs out there with more engaging combat systems, classes, and so forth. In my opinion, it's legacy and lore that keep it together. No other game has that sort of good story-telling and legacy.

My biggest problem with most MMOs on the market? Apart from a boring story with no legacy, they're either P2W (every Asian MMO) or too casual (GW2). It's hard to find that sweet spot of engagement, especially with people's expectations being what they are right now mostly due to WoW.

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Posted : 16/12/2018 5:22 am
Faendor
(@faendor)
Reputable Member

Regarding lore and story-telling...I feel like it has been a shit show full of retcons since WoD, maybe even earlier. The lore in BfA is just pure nonsense. I loved the story up-to WotLK.

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Posted : 16/12/2018 5:59 am
Nymis
(@nymis)
Reputable Member

The reason most people did is because WotLK ended the arc started in Warcraft 3 (Illidan, Arthas, Founding of Durotar, Lordaeron etc.). After that they were free to pursue whatever they wanted which is why a lot of people felt alienated from the story. Personally, I think the lore was alright up to Warlords of Draenor. The alternate-universe Metzen-serviced incursion blew really hard for me.

There also was a radical change in the mindset of storytelling. Each expansion after WotLK flows into the next, story-wise - whereas before, there was no real continuity between expansions (or even patches). I think the lack of continuity sort of gave it a fresh look every expansion/patch, whereas now I feel like I'm dragging the remnants of Deathwing shattering the world and revealing Pandaria, where Garosh managed to escape to Draenor and allow Gul'Dan to summon the Legion which caused a war to break after the Alliance failed to collaborate with the Horde.

This versus "here is Onyxia, here is Hakkar, now there's C'thun and after that Naxx. Why? Who cares, Azeroth is threatened, go now."

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Posted : 16/12/2018 7:59 am
fendor
(@fendor)
Estimable Member

In my opinion, it's legacy and lore that keep it together. No other game has that sort of good story-telling and legacy.

Yes and no in my opinion. I personally LOVE the amount of lore in the game, but I know a lot of people that really enjoy it without even knowing what the scourge and the Lich King are ๐Ÿ™‚

It's a lot of things that cater to many different kind of players. There's something for everybody. And the pace it's a lot slower than moder MMO... I think that also does the trick

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Posted : 17/12/2018 2:26 am
Nymis
(@nymis)
Reputable Member

knowing what the scourge and the Lich King are

Oh, definitely - I think part of what I meant with "lore" was also immersion and zone design. Even if you don't read the quests and just do them on auto-pilot, you still get the sense of the story just being in that area. Not to mention how varied the theme of each area is, how big the world feels and everything.

It's funny when you think about how most people never actually knew the lore but we were all on the same page somehow. That's good story-telling in the form of zone design, gameplay, music, etc.

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Posted : 17/12/2018 12:43 pm
Li_Mu_Bai
(@li_mu_bai)
New Member

Many modern RPGs seem to make the leveling experience fast and streamlined.

It has been described as the difference between a progression-based vs convenience-based game. In classic WOW there was so much to do in the world itself that was fun and engaging. And at the same time most of what you were doing was leading somewhere, to some kind of goal or reward. In modern WOW it's about getting to the goal quickly and easily (conveniently), and then completing the goal without any challenge (for fear of not succeeding), and then collecting your reward. To me if anyone can do the thing easily and quickly that makes the reward that much less rewarding. But in classic the journey (or road, metaphorically speaking), was actually part of the goal, and it was often fun and interesting. The "road" was something in and of itself, and it was something to discover, and it was vast, and rich, and challenging. And it made the goal that much more rewarding when it was achieved.

I understand when people say they don't have the time to play like they used to, they have a family and job, etc. And so they prefer the convenience of getting to the end quickly and easily. But what I don't understand is even if you only have a few hours to play a week, you can still enjoy the road to the goal, even if you don't get there for a while. The alternative is just a dummied-down experience.

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Posted : 19/12/2018 8:25 pm
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