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What Classic needs is better PvP

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RedridgeGnoll
(@redridgegnoll)
Reputable Member

PvP content can be replayed for years if done correctly. The one thing that Classic WoW lacks is a competitive PvP system. Blizzard added Arena in TBC to try to fix this issue. Arena was not the right solution, and the developers even admitted to it. I understand the appeal of Arena. It is competitive and has a defined ranking system. However, pigeonholing players into a tiny area with pillars is not in the spirit of the game. The game is about the open world and the encounters in it.

The first change that should be made is to split the honor system into battleground and world pvp rankings. Honor earned in World PvP and honor earned in battlegrounds should have separate ranking systems. As we all know, the release of battlegrounds trivializes World PvP, since you can no longer viably rank up doing it. Part of what makes World PvP special is that it can happen in almost any zone of the game. You have 20 or 30 wide open playgrounds where players can engage in battle. The map is constantly changing.

The dilemma is how do you make World PvP more structured and competitive? There are 20 or so contested territories in Classic WoW. Unfortunately, most of the level 60 World PvP happens in Silithus, Searing Gorge, Plaguelands, and Winterspring. Level 60s should be incentivized to PvP in all the contested territories. Obviously, camping low levels in Redridge is not what I have in mind. However, every contested territory should have reasons for level 60 players to frequent them, so that there can be World PvP across all of Azeroth.

How do you add strucuture to World PvP in Classic WoW? Do you turn each contested territory into a temporary open world battleground? What if Tanaris had objectives similar to Arathi Basin with a resource score. The faction which earns the highest resource score wins the battle in Tanaris. What would these objectives be? How would you discourage mindless zerging? Could you have a ranking system based on player performance qnd contribution in each battle?

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Topic starter Posted : 05/09/2019 9:49 am
teebling
(@teebling)
Noble Member

The one thing that Classic WoW lacks is a competitive PvP system.

Yes, because it's World of Warcraft: Classic.
The dilemma is how do you make World PvP more structured and competitive?

How do you add strucuture to World PvP in Classic WoW?

Don't, or just play a different game other than World of Warcraft: Classic.
Do you turn each contested territory into a temporary open world battleground?

No.
What if Tanaris had objectives similar to Arathi Basin with a resource score?

What if the moon landing was a big hoax? We may never know.
Could you have a ranking system based on player performance qnd contribution in each battle?

No because then it would not be World of Warcraft: Classic.

I hope this answers your questions.

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Posted : 05/09/2019 10:10 am
Nymis
(@nymis)
Reputable Member

Do you do anything other than shilling against TBC and in favor of introducing Ashran in Classic WoW on these forums?

There's been 4 threads at least that I know of that have answered your question already. We know you're tired of being called silly on other Classic WoW forums but your refusal to acknowledge every single fact and argument that's already been made kind of makes me think they're justified, because you seem to be interested in shilling and starting drama and not actually looking to get feedback.

If you have a short memory, I'd like to invite you to please review any of the arguments already posted in your other threads on the same or similar topic:

The Grind of the Honor System
Introducing World-PvP Frontiers
Battlezones: World PvP Battle for Resources Idea
Post-Classic Using Horizontal Content

Please review any of the dozens of pages of feedback you've already received and don't bother us with the same questions over and over again.

Everyone else, please don't feed this obvious troll.

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Posted : 05/09/2019 10:18 am
RedridgeGnoll
(@redridgegnoll)
Reputable Member

Do you do anything other than shilling against TBC and in favor of introducing Ashran in Classic WoW on these forums?

There's been 4 threads at least that I know of that have answered your question already. We know you're tired of being called silly on other Classic WoW forums but your refusal to acknowledge every single fact and argument that's already been made kind of makes me think they're justified, because you seem to be interested in shilling and starting drama and not actually looking to get feedback.

If you have a short memory, I'd like to invite you to please review any of the arguments already posted in your other threads on the same or similar topic:

The Grind of the Honor System
Introducing World-PvP Frontiers
Battlezones: World PvP Battle for Resources Idea
Post-Classic Using Horizontal Content

Please review any of the dozens of pages of feedback you've already received and don't bother us with the same questions over and over again.

Everyone else, please don't feed this obvious troll.

The point still remains. World PvP becomes trivialized when battlegrounds are released. The honor system in Classic makes ranking up in World PvP not feasible. PvP can be replayed for years, while PvE content gerenally has a shorter lifecycle. Classic WoW lacks any type of structure in World PvP. The open world is the greatest asset of the game. There is a reason Blizzard added arena in TBC. Players wanted a structuted system with ratings. That is what is popular in gaming nowadays.

I appreciate you consolidating some of the topics I have posted. Comparing my ideas to Ashran is just a way for you to avoid the discussion.

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Topic starter Posted : 05/09/2019 10:27 am
Nyxt
 Nyxt
(@nyxt)
Reputable Member

Not this again!
Need a filter to not allow Mr. Gnoll to create these types of threads!

You can complain and stat that TBC was not good and didnt handle pvp well with Arenas or even bash classic and how to make it better but why dont you stop posting and enjoy the game! I am absolutely loving Classic right now! Flaws or not, this game is amazing! During my time leveling I am not complaining about the game, I am not even noticing them!

I don't think I am a minority in this, reading forums and seeing how many people are playing classic, kinda shows we/classic doesnt need changes or saving!

I get that after years of playing classic it will get stale and may lose content but if you play a game for a long time, eventually you will want to do or play something else.

Get off the forums my friend and enjoy the game for what it is or just play another game!

EDIT: Also I enjoyed TBC more than Vanilla when I played back then!

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Posted : 05/09/2019 10:36 am
RedridgeGnoll
(@redridgegnoll)
Reputable Member

I do enjoy Classic. I am just saying that a good PvP system could add years of replayability to the game. I don't claim that the suggesions I have put forth are foolproof. However, I do think that something has to be added to PvP to keep it more playable.

The prevailing argument is that faction imbalance would ruin any World PvP system. However, even on servers that have faction imbalances there is still a lot of World PvP and truimphs on both sides. I just think that this is something that has to happen. Look at all the popular games nowadays. Fortnite, Overwatch, League of Legends, CS GO, DOTA 2. They all have competitive pvp systems with ratings and strucuture. I realize how challenging it is to have something like that in Classic WoW, due to the open world nature of the game. The questions is whether it is possible to have this in Classic WoW. If so, how? I am trying to figure that out.

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Topic starter Posted : 05/09/2019 10:46 am
beached
(@beached)
Estimable Member

I am just saying that a good PvP system could add years of replayability to the game

Something to pitch to blizz when / if they ever start talking about classic+. Until then, (~2 years from now?) we are good. mature the ideas a bit more and share with us again after naxx is released 😀

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Posted : 05/09/2019 11:39 am
Yinn
 Yinn
(@yinn)
Eminent Member

I like how you constantly belittle expansions in your posts. Then you turn around and offer changes based entirely on what those same expansions have already tried.

Maybe the rest of the world doesn't want esports competition? Maybe it does? Either way keep my world pvp just that, WORLD and un-instanced.

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Posted : 05/09/2019 11:57 am
RedridgeGnoll
(@redridgegnoll)
Reputable Member

I like how you constantly belittle expansions in your posts. Then you turn around and offer changes based entirely on what those same expansions have already tried.

Maybe the rest of the world doesn't want esports competition? Maybe it does? Either way keep my world pvp just that, WORLD and un-instanced.

I agree. World PvP is about the world, not instances. I just want World PvP to be more exciting. We will see how Phase 2 goes. It will be interesting.

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Topic starter Posted : 05/09/2019 12:14 pm
Telvaine
(@telvaine)
Reputable Member

The whole point of wpvp in classic and what makes it fun is that it is unstructured. You are trying to make unstructured pvp better by making it structured... like battlegrounds. Not sure what it is you are even trying to accomplish.

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Posted : 05/09/2019 12:17 pm
RedridgeGnoll
(@redridgegnoll)
Reputable Member

The whole point of wpvp in classic and what makes it fun is that it is unstructured. You are trying to make unstructured pvp better by making it structured... like battlegrounds. Not sure what it is you are even trying to accomplish.

Well having an honor system where you can only rank up doing battlegrounds is a problem. There should be two honor systems. One for World PvP and Battlegrounds. This way players are not forced to only spam BGs to rank up.

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Topic starter Posted : 05/09/2019 12:44 pm
Telvaine
(@telvaine)
Reputable Member

The whole point of wpvp in classic and what makes it fun is that it is unstructured. You are trying to make unstructured pvp better by making it structured... like battlegrounds. Not sure what it is you are even trying to accomplish.

Well having an honor system where you can only rank up doing battlegrounds is a problem. There should be two honor systems. One for World PvP and Battlegrounds. This way players are not forced to only spam BGs to rank up.

Why should players be able to rank up from wpvp?

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Posted : 05/09/2019 12:54 pm
RedridgeGnoll
(@redridgegnoll)
Reputable Member

The whole point of wpvp in classic and what makes it fun is that it is unstructured. You are trying to make unstructured pvp better by making it structured... like battlegrounds. Not sure what it is you are even trying to accomplish.

Well having an honor system where you can only rank up doing battlegrounds is a problem. There should be two honor systems. One for World PvP and Battlegrounds. This way players are not forced to only spam BGs to rank up.

Why should players be able to rank up from wpvp?

Because the open world is the strongest element of Classic. It is what seperates itself from Retail. The open world element of Classic is something that no other popular game has. So why not improve the open world pvp im the game? Warsong gulch in 2019 isn't that special. Neither is Arena. Other pvp games and genres have surpassed them.

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Topic starter Posted : 05/09/2019 1:09 pm
Telvaine
(@telvaine)
Reputable Member

I don't see how making open world pvp more structured is an improvement, when the lack of structure is what makes it fun.

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Posted : 05/09/2019 1:11 pm
RedridgeGnoll
(@redridgegnoll)
Reputable Member

I don't see how making open world pvp more structured is an improvement, when the lack of structure is what makes it fun.

The lack of structure and rewards leads to boredom. Eventually, players ignore World PvP due to the lack of rewards.

Let's be honest. Right now you gank someone and they just walk back to their corpse. No gain or loss by either player. It gets boring, and it is obvious that competitive players realize how shallow it is. There are little to no stakes.

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Topic starter Posted : 05/09/2019 1:23 pm
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