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Serious Disscussion on Paladin Tanking.

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Gauze
(@gauze)
New Member

It is normally stated that Paladins can't tank and Warriors are king, but I am was curious if they can legitimately not tank and holds agro or if they are just less optimal than a warrior? With the knowledge of the classes, raids, easier to optimize your gear, etc. Is Paladin tanking still a dead end? While I mained priest in classic, I did quite a bit of Paladin tanking in BC and really enjoyed it.

Yes, I know warriors are better at tanking, but with the right gear and spec nowadays, is it possible?

Thanks!

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Topic starter Posted : 19/06/2019 5:22 pm
Latsiv
(@latsiv)
Trusted Member

The biggest problem pally tanks have in Classic is having no taunt. Warriors and Druids have the ability to force mobs to attack them (aside from some taunt-immune bosses) and become top of that mob's threat table. All tanks have to spend some time getting threat in vanilla, but Pallies have no way of snapping it back if an overeager DPS gets a few crits in a row or whatever.

The second biggest issue is that pallies use mana, and to keep generating threat at a decent pace you'll go oom before the end of all but the shortest fights. And you'll have to drink after every single pull.

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Posted : 19/06/2019 5:28 pm
Selexin
(@selexin)
Prominent Member

This feels like a thread for Caperfin!

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Posted : 19/06/2019 5:31 pm
Stfuppercut
(@stfuppercut)
Noble Member

They are less optimal. If you want to tank, play a warrior. If you want to play a paladin tank, play a paladin tank. You will likely cap at dungeon farming. People here can link all the theorycrafting and sources in the world, but securing an endgame tanking role is TOUGH, much tougher as a paladin or druid. You will have far less opportunities to tank as a paladin than you would as a warrior. If you are set on playing as a pally tank, dont let the odds discourage you.

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Posted : 19/06/2019 5:36 pm
Linguine
(@linguine)
Reputable Member

They are less optimal. If you want to tank, play a warrior. If you want to play a paladin tank, play a paladin tank. You will likely cap at dungeon farming. People here can link all the theorycrafting and sources in the world, but securing an endgame tanking role is TOUGH, much tougher as a paladin or druid. You will have far less opportunities to tank as a paladin than you would as a warrior. If you are set on playing as a pally tank, dont let the odds discourage you.

I think he's asking about if it is mathematically possible, and being capped at Dungeon farming implies that it is.

As for the original question... how is a Paladin tank going to keep up mana for those long boss fights? Druids and Warriors just need to keep receiving heals, but from what I understand it is very difficult for a Paladin tank to acquire that sort of mana considering the gear isn't built for that at all (could be wrong, but I believe itemization is a huge problem considering Warriors get dedicated tanking tiers).

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Posted : 19/06/2019 5:38 pm
Gauze
(@gauze)
New Member

The biggest problem pally tanks have in Classic is having no taunt. Warriors and Druids have the ability to force mobs to attack them (aside from some taunt-immune bosses) and become top of that mob's threat table. All tanks have to spend some time getting threat in vanilla, but Pallies have no way of snapping it back if an overeager DPS gets a few crits in a row or whatever.

The second biggest issue is that pallies use mana, and to keep generating threat at a decent pace you'll go oom before the end of all but the shortest fights. And you'll have to drink after every single pull.

Normally for raids, Warriors get time to build rage and get x sunders on the target before DPS jumps in. Would that similar amount of time not be enough for Paladins to keep aggro in raids. Most classes have an aggro reduction skill, but yes, no taunt is kind of a bummer. As I have never played a Paladin before in classic, do they run out of mana that quick in fights trying to keep aggro? Even with the correct gear and talent optimization, they would be oom before any boss is defeated in MC?

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Topic starter Posted : 19/06/2019 5:44 pm
Stfuppercut
(@stfuppercut)
Noble Member

I think he's asking about if it is mathematically possible, and being capped at Dungeon farming implies that it is.

As for the original question... how is a Paladin tank going to keep up mana for those long boss fights? Druids and Warriors just need to keep receiving heals, but from what I understand it is very difficult for a Paladin tank to acquire that sort of mana considering the gear isn't built for that at all (could be wrong, but I believe itemization is a huge problem considering Warriors get dedicated tanking tiers).

Yea. We start to get into the territory of what is possible vs what is reasonable. Pallys boast some decent aoe threat. They have decent DPS. They have major mana issues... The reality is that a priest can tank. This will require an absurd amount of heals, the odd wipe and a VERY competent raid watching the threat meters. If your raid facing ANY adversity or ANYONE makes a mistake, the ship sinks. Are these meme specs viable? Yes. Are they optimal? No.

Ask yourself if you want to play a paladin tank or if you want to tank? That will determine if you should play as a warrior or a prot pally.

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Posted : 19/06/2019 5:44 pm
Selexin
(@selexin)
Prominent Member

Ask yourself if you want to play a paladin tank or if you want to tank? That will determine if you should play as a warrior or a prot pally.

OP: "Yes, I know warriors are better at tanking, but with the right gear and spec nowadays, is it possible?"

OP question wasnt asking if warrior is better, maybe provide some valuable discussion on making a Paladin tank, rather than shutting him down. Don't discourage people from having discussions about something you don't agree with.

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Posted : 19/06/2019 5:51 pm
Stfuppercut
(@stfuppercut)
Noble Member

Ask yourself if you want to play a paladin tank or if you want to tank? That will determine if you should play as a warrior or a prot pally.

OP: "Yes, I know warriors are better at tanking, but with the right gear and spec nowadays, is it possible?"

OP question wasnt asking if warrior is better, maybe provide some valuable discussion on making a Paladin tank, rather than shutting him down. Don't discourage people from having discussions about something you don't agree with.

Are we going to play the game where you follow me around the forum to bicker in each thread I post on because I bruised your ego? Behave.

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Posted : 19/06/2019 5:53 pm
Selexin
(@selexin)
Prominent Member

Stfuppercut I read the forums yes. You were being unnecessarily forceful on a post that I was watching to see some cool discussion on. Well done to you, I hope you don't deter any more members from posting.

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Posted : 19/06/2019 5:58 pm
Stfuppercut
(@stfuppercut)
Noble Member

@Stfuppercut I read the forums yes. You were being unnecessarily forceful on a post that I was watching to see some cool discussion on. Well done to you, I hope you don't deter any more members from posting.

No need to hijack another thread with your emotions, let OP discuss prot pally tanking with the rest of the members. Your issues with me shouldn't overflow into multiple topics. If you have an issue that cant be resolved one on one, or you feel like my posts are hurting you or other members feelings, address that with teebling in private like an adult.

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Posted : 19/06/2019 6:02 pm
Selexin
(@selexin)
Prominent Member

Gauze, now that he is done flopping his ego around, there is a serious ret Paladin player on these forms who I would love to see weigh in on the topic. Having trouble remembering the username, female human Paladin signature. They undoubtledy have some experience in playing or theorycrafting prot Paladin.

Mana and threat are going to be the tricky parts, but there are always way to manage that. Caperfin who I mentioned earlier will have some useful insight, he has done the extensive shaman tanking guide which talks a lot about threat and mana management, as it is a very similar problem for shaman and Paladin.

Sorry I can't offer more insight personally, I'll try to track down the Paladin to tag them here.

Edit: Caspus !!!

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Posted : 19/06/2019 6:09 pm
beached
(@beached)
Estimable Member

but I am was curious if they can legitimately not tank and holds agro or if they are just less optimal than a warrior?

Totally possible, sure warriors are easier to tank with, but you can prot pally tank just fine. Im not sure how likely you will get MT in a raid, but i have been in plenty of raids where the pally is OT without any issues. I have seen Pally's MT certain bosses just fine.

I would be interested in the gear compares, early on, I feel that Pally and Warrior gear will look very similar. But those T1 sets look very different.

Side note, i would like to say anytime you hear someone say "If you want to X, roll a Y" completely ignore it. I have seen all specs in raids, and it works just fine. I personally think its garbage to go into a raid where there are only 5 or 6 specs, and every piece of gear has 8 people fighting for it. Optimal isn't required for vanilla, and I really hope that we can avoid die hard wannabes on launch that refuse to roll with certain specs in dungeons or raids because you aren't running your classes 'designated spec'.

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Posted : 19/06/2019 6:18 pm
Selexin
(@selexin)
Prominent Member

I would be interested in the gear compares, early on, I feel that Pally and Warrior gear will look very similar. But those T1 sets look very different.

I'm not sure how the prot paly gearing is worked, but could a combo of non class tier raid tanking pieces and some Paladin tier pieces (for intellect) combined provide a nice balance of def/stam/str/int?

So wearing defensive "warrior" items for the brawn alongside some Paladin tier pieces for the brains? I could imagine all jewelery and trinkets/weaps/shield being "warrior" items and a lot of the regular gear being Paladin tier pieces that are well distributed with stats for tanking.

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Posted : 19/06/2019 6:27 pm
Linguine
(@linguine)
Reputable Member

Okay, I'm going to get real and just come out and say if you want a non-warrior tank you'd have been better off rolling Druid.

I've had a very geared Pally (raid geared, but not the raid tank) tank Scholo for me and, even with all those UD and keeping aggro, waiting for him was a huge pain! He was the bottleneck of the group. No one needed as much downtime as him, even the casters and the healer.

Things you're missing: Tanking Tiers, having to choose between flask of wisdom and flask of titans, Lifegiving gem, requiring dwarf priests to give you fear ward, being unable to use your save button because it wipes aggro while warrior's last stand would have been great, no taunt, no flat damage reduction for defensive stance, talent synergy isn't there (Reckoning needs crits, but you don't want to be critted at all as MT!), etc...

Yes, Paladins are very good at AOE tanking but that pretty much means farming dungeons and being pulled out to tank the suppression room in BWL. Boss fights are, for the most part, single target tanking which is where Paladins come at the bottom of the pack.

If you are happy with Dungeon farming and the Suppression room, roll prot pally, if not, do not count on getting further.

You need an entire guild to get behind you and it will likely not happen, even if it was mathematically possible which the odds lean towards no.

EDIT: Normally I am a big proponent of playing what you enjoy despite obstacles (even Druid Selexin, been playing a lot of AB and I see why you like Druid), but it doesn't sound like that is what you're getting at here. You don't know if you love or would even enjoy classic pally, and the class changed a lot when BC came around. I played on in BC, and it is subtly, yet distinctly, different in the expansion.

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Posted : 19/06/2019 6:41 pm
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