Druid Levelling Tal...
 
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Druid Levelling Talent Order Discussion

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res
 res
(@res)
Eminent Member

I've never really played a druid before, but I've decided to play one for classic.

I did some reading about different specs for levelling, and they look pretty similar.
From what I could find the things that are most often discussed when it comes to druid levelling are the following:

1. Whether to skip the second row of Feral tree and just speccing 10/10 in the first row, or using a combination of different talents from both 2 rows in Feral. (from what I could find it's always 5/5 https://classic.wowhead.com/spell=16938/ferocity though).

2. The order in which you spec outside of the Feral tree, examples of different strategies I've found:

  • Spec balance for https://classic.wowhead.com/spell=16906/natural-weapons and https://classic.wowhead.com/spell=16864/omen-of-clarity first, and then fill out the Feral tree.
    Example

  • Spec until 2/2 https://classic.wowhead.com/spell=24866/feline-swiftness then go balance for https://classic.wowhead.com/spell=16906/natural-weapons and https://classic.wowhead.com/spell=16864/omen-of-clarity .
    Example

  • Spec until https://classic.wowhead.com/spell=16857/faerie-fire-feral then go balance for https://classic.wowhead.com/spell=16906/natural-weapons and https://classic.wowhead.com/spell=16864/omen-of-clarity .
    Example

  • Fill out the Feral tree and then go balance for https://classic.wowhead.com/spell=16906/natural-weapons and https://classic.wowhead.com/spell=16864/omen-of-clarity .
    Example

  • What's your thoughts and experiences from levelling a druid? What order will you use?

    This isn't meant to just include Feral levelling, feel free to discuss other levelling specs.

    Here's a link to a talent calculator that shows the order which you spend your talent points:
    Bobo Talents

    Some common abbreviations:

  • FFF = https://classic.wowhead.com/spell=16857/faerie-fire-feral

  • OoC = https://classic.wowhead.com/spell=16864/omen-of-clarity

  • Natural SS = https://classic.wowhead.com/spell=16835/natural-shapeshifter

  • LOTP = https://classic.wowhead.com/spell=17007/leader-of-the-pack

  • NW = https://classic.wowhead.com/spell=16906/natural-weapons

  • HotW = https://classic.wowhead.com/spell=24894/heart-of-the-
  • Quote
    Topic starter Posted : 15/07/2019 4:34 pm
    Lendryn
    (@lendryn)
    Estimable Member

    I think the first progression is out of the question, there's no way 10% phys will speed up your kill time enough to justify slowing feline swiftness and everything else in feral. You shouldn't need clearcasting to have 0 downtime between pulls since mana regen early on is very generous. Beyond that I haven't done the math. Heart of the Wild won't have great scaling with leveling gear but Leader of the Pack is too good to wait on if you plan on doing SM/ZF at all, or if you have a leveling partner that benefits.

    ReplyQuote
    Posted : 15/07/2019 6:24 pm
    Selexin
    (@selexin)
    Prominent Member

    Adding to Lendryn's post, I would agree that the OOC and phys damage won't be worth rushing to over feral talents. Also, if you plan on shifting between bear/cat/human a bit while leveling it might be worth picking up furor earlier.

    I think getting Feline Swiftness/Feral Charge is probably main priority.

    ReplyQuote
    Posted : 15/07/2019 8:17 pm
    Erik
     Erik
    (@erik)
    Reputable Member

    There have been some tests by speedrunners iirc that going into balance first to get 10% physical then respec at like 21 is the fastest way. But this costs alot of gold. Id suggest going into 2/2 Feline Swiftness first for the movespeed then rest is kind of however one wants.

    It's personal preference, unless you have a batshit crazy spec, in the end at 60 it will at most set you back or ahead 1-5hrs which is nothing if you compare to how much you are actually gonna play on that character. If you are going to tank while leveling, furor is not priority imo because you will be sitting in bear form. Id rather faster take those 5 pts into something more usefull in Feral tree.

    Never go 10/10 first row of Feral, you don't get Ferocious bite until lvl 30-40 ish so you are wasting 5 talents the first 40 levels.

    ReplyQuote
    Posted : 15/07/2019 10:31 pm
    Colroyds
    (@colroyds)
    Active Member

    I used to speedrun druid a fair bit on private servers but on the beta, in the early levels in particular the bear form autoattack damage (and cat, though less noticeable on cat because autoattack/maul damage is basically 100% of a bear's damage) was significantly lower than private server. To compensate for that I was opening with 1-2 Wrath -> MF -> Bear a lot more especially 14-15+ when the lower bear damage is very noticeable. For this I liked 5/5 Imp Wrath -> 3/3 Natural Shapeshifter -> 2/3 Natural Weapons over rushing 5/5 NW. I'd then respec at 20 for 1/2 Feral Swiftness. Going 5/5 Imp Wrath -> 5/5 Natural Shapeshifter -> OoC @ 20 then respeccing instantly at 21 for 2/2 Feral Swiftness is an option though I preferred the movement speed at 20 and Natural Shapeshifter for 15-19, and personally respeccing ASAP at 21 not 20 for 2/2 feral swiftness would be very inconvenient for my route.

    After that I rush FFF, then max Furor and Savage Fury. Furor is very strong when you're taking decent damage from mobs in the late 30s and early 40s, and are having deshift and heal a lot more. It also can't be understated how good FFF is, the extra uptime alone from pulling at 30yrd (especially when aggro range is much lower in general on beta) is invaluable, let alone the armor reduction. I then fill out the feral tree to LOTP @ 45. Delaying LOTP to 45 for 5/5 Furor is fine since you're not getting too much value out of HOTW until like late 40s.

    At 46 I respec again to Omen + FFF + 5/5 Furor, then LOTP and finally 3/3 imp shapeshifter to 60. Should easily have mount by 46 so the 2nd respec cost isnt coming out of mount gold. It might be that it's worth respeccing a level or two earlier with 3/5 or 4/5 Furor assuming mount isn't a problem, but I liked waiting for 46 to max Furor because you're getting decent value in the full feral spec anyway with LOTP @ 45.

    ReplyQuote
    Posted : 16/07/2019 1:11 am
    Yar
     Yar
    (@yar)
    Eminent Member

    What Colroyds mentioned above is pretty much true. Respeccing at 21 however forces you to either go back to TB for a second time, or skip cat form for an entire level, which is not desirable at all! I played around on the beta, and what worked best for me was going with 5/5 Imp Wrath into 3/3 Natural SS and then fill up Imp Moonfire untill level 20. Frontloading your mana before going into bear to finish a kill. Leaving bear form for the next mob only if you're out of rage. At 20 go to the trainer and respec straight away into:
    https://bobo-talents.aerobaticapp.com/?c=druid&t=z_z.z~z-Aaz5z6z7z8z9AxIA

    After that's its basically going for FFF and LOTP. At 40 I had something like this:
    https://bobo-talents.aerobaticapp.com/?c=druid&t=z_z.z~z-Aaz5z6z7z8z9AxIAAdAeAfAlAmArAsAtzBAvAwApAqAyAzAAABIBAC

    I must admit, I never played on private servers, and all my testing was on the classic beta. I can't really talk about 40+

    ReplyQuote
    Posted : 16/07/2019 1:52 am
    beached
    (@beached)
    Estimable Member

    In classic, leveling takes significantly longer. Movement speed is critical to both time to level, as well as leveling enjoyment. Getting Feline Swiftness is usually considered #1 priority for druids leveling.

    Also, levels 10 - 20, you will likely spend most of your time in bear form using maul. Some people will use wrath through this process, but mana is short, and at 20+ you will be feral, so most people just gear and spec right into the feral leveling talents for levels 10-19.

    To answer your question 1. Thick hide is considered a key talent for leveling, the armor bonus you get is critical to survivability. After level 20, you wont spend too much time in bear form, unless you really like tanking dungeons (But then more armor > reduced rage on a skill you use once per pull), so the demo roar cost reduction has minimal benefit. Also, you get ferocious bite so late, that the 5/5 in feral aggression is pretty useless for so long.
    What's your thoughts and experiences from leveling a druid? What order will you use?

    I personally pick the route below, not sure what others pick.

    https://bobo-talents.aerobaticapp.com/?c=druid&t=z_z.z~z-Aaz5z6z7z8z9AxIAAIAJAKALAMAdAeAfAlAmArAsAtzBAvAwAbAuAyAzAAABIBy9BgBhBiBjzOzPzQzRzSzH

    Key reasons:

    1. Get feline swiftness ASAP
    2. Get 5/5 furor
    3. Get Blood frenzy
    4.Get heart of the wild
    5. Get omen last.
    6. W/e you want, focus in on what you like to do (PVP/Dungeon tanking, etc)

    Why?
    Well Swiftness for movement is key for questing IMO. I cant remember where, but I watch a guy do a bunch of timing, and determined when it would be better to mount / travel form / or stay cat form with swiftness. 90% of the time there wasn't much of a reason to mount, it was all stay in cat form and run while energy recharged. If distance to travel was > recharge time, then travel form until your distance = recharge time. there was very few times that the mount summon time was worth it. Since travel form is instant cast and you still dismount far enough away from the quest mobs to recharge energy to 100% at the time of arrival. This theory dictates my priorities 1 and 2. Swiftness allows faster run times < 30, and increases the distance between mobs that you can run without shifting to travel / mount. (Movement speed is slower, but kills/xp/minute are higher because full energy bars to kill mobs faster)

    Blood frenzy isnt really super useful before ferocious bite. Bite is this talents main combo while leveling. Fights are too short for rip to be worth the energy and so it waits until after furor, because you do not get bite until level 32. (Here you get 2/2 blood frenzy at 31).

    heart of the wild's 20% bonuses are just great. Flat 20% intel boost helps feral a ton. this intel boost will decrease your down time significantly, I have noticed that 5/5 in this talent will cut my downtime to drink between pulls in half or more. (Power shifting and heals) (Not that I have much down time before this talent though...). Obv. 20% str boost is self evident.

    Omen is useful, but last on my prior list. For the most part, fights are too short for omen to be super useful. I dont have many mana issues before or after HotW, and unless i just made a huge pull by mistake, i dont really drink in between pulls. (even then I just pop innervate). The free energy is nice, but fights are frequently too short to benefit, and power-shifting is an instant get energy to hit. I have noticed that Omen is most useful for long boss fights, which is why I save it for the end, when Im leveling, but also when I start dungeon for pre-raid bis. in my experience, Omen just isnt that useful when leveling because fights are short and mana isnt much of a problem.

    ReplyQuote
    Posted : 16/07/2019 9:45 am
    res
     res
    (@res)
    Eminent Member

    Some nice discussion, but not being too familiar with the druid class I got a bit confused about the acronyms at first. I edited the main post to list some of the common acronyms used in the discussion for other "noobs" like me.

    It seems more clear to me now that Feral Aggression isn't really worth taking.

    I feel like respeccing while levelling will burden an already heavily packed beast of burden (me),
    so the wrath spec I don't feel is for me. But some very interesting observations about the classic beta and viability of this strategy.

    Since I will be playing on a PvP server I'm going to go with 2/2 Brutal impact after Ferocity and try to get Feral Charge just after Feline Swiftness.
    With that in mind, like some have pointed out getting Furor early on makes a lot of sense if you're going to be switching in and out of forms, and especially in a PvP scenario after getting Feral Charge it makes sense so that you can instantly charge a spell-caster in PvP.

    I guess that's another dimension of the discussion:
    Levelling on a PvP server vs levelling on a PvE server. Thoughts?

    I was thinking something like this for level 35 (on a PvP server)

    Another question:
    Blood Frenzy or Predatory Strikes first, what's your experience?

    ReplyQuote
    Topic starter Posted : 16/07/2019 11:03 am
    beached
    (@beached)
    Estimable Member

    My comment was 100% focused on PVE server. I mostly avoid world PVP, i dont find it fun. But playing private servers for the past who knows how long, it has been unavoidable.

    I took a look at your 35 and have some feedback:

    Armor is very important still. I would not sacrifice the armor bonus for an extra 1s bash.

    Natures grasp becomes significantly more valuable, but no need to sink 5/5 into it. As a result, we will pick this up earlier.

    Still get furor immediately following feline swiftness. Feral Charge is significantly less useful without furor. As a druid, you will rarely be in bear form with rage, when pvp triggers. most of the time, you will be cat or natural form. Also, you will be shifting in and out of forms ALL the time in pvp. Very very very rarely will you ever have a pvp encounter and be in a single form the entire time. Feral Charge is usually used as an opener, or a spell interrupt. In both instances you will likely come out of stealth or after a hot > Shift bear > Charge > maul/roar if mail+ armor > shift cat .....

    an extra 1 sec of bash is handy, but there are other talents that I consider far more valuable.(like natures grasp) Remember that you will still be spending the majority of your time leveling, dont gimp leveling for bash 1s. Also, talenting into bash before you hit pvp content is kind of a waste and inefficient.

    Also, difficult to say how useful feral instinct is. I have seen stealth vary wildly between servers. Some it has been OP, others barely useful. Im not sure if anyone has done tests on beta on how effective this talent is for stealth, but you may hear that this is super useful for avoiding a group gank.

    This is what I have done on private servers.

    https://bobo-talents.aerobaticapp.com/?c=druid&t=z_z.z~z-Aaz5z6z7z8z9AxIAAIAJAKALAMAuAdAeAfAlAmy9BgAbAczBArAsAtAvAwAyAzAAABIBBhBiBjzOzPzQzRzSzH

    ReplyQuote
    Posted : 16/07/2019 12:04 pm
    Selexin
    (@selexin)
    Prominent Member

    an extra 1 sec of bash is handy, but there are other talents that I consider far more valuable.(like natures grasp) Remember that you will still be spending the majority of your time leveling, dont gimp leveling for bash 1s. Also, talenting into bash before you hit pvp content is kind of a waste and inefficient.

    I always go 2/2 brutal impact, people tend to forget it's not just for bash, but also pounce. I use pounce a lot in PvP and also in some PvE encounters where I want to control the fight more and get bleeds stacked on the target. This is a personal preference, but it did suit my playstyle, particularly on PvP servers. Also being an Australian (see: bad ping), the extra bash duration helped to get regrowth or healing touch off before the stun time elapsed, more time to heal is always a good thing. While the ping should hopefully be better for Australia in Classic WoW, I still see increased duration on our limited pool of CC as pretty key to survival. Pounce is a level 36 ability and the stun is increased from 2 sec to 3 sec. At lvl 30 your rank 2 Bash goes from 3 sec to 4 sec. This is a pretty significant increase to your control over a fight.
    Also, difficult to say how useful feral instinct is. I have seen stealth vary wildly between servers. Some it has been OP, others barely useful. I'm not sure if anyone has done tests on beta on how effective this talent is for stealth, but you may hear that this is super useful for avoiding a group gank.

    For leveling and PvP specs I have always gone 3/5 feral instinct and 2/2 brutal impact over 5/5 thick hide. Again this is personal preference and also is more suited to Cat leveling, and PvP. Having leveled a few druids to 60, I find a huge amount of time is spent in cat form and also stealthing to avoid mobs/engage PvP/escape PvP - so having increased stealth is pretty handy (and should work accurately on Classic). The other benefit is bear threat. Threat at a bear at end game is quite easy and our TPS is very high just through the great scaling and low cost of Maul. As you are leveling and tanking the odd dungeon/elite quest, you will find that people will tend to pull aggro (more specifically on AoE pulls) so the additional threat here is really key. Swipe and Feral Instinct together will be extremely helpful. You do sacrifice some armor, but I find while leveling at least, the stealth and threat benefits have seemed more regularly useful than the extra armor. Thick hide at 60 with the correct itemization scales insanely well, not as noticeable at mid levels as a non-dedicated tank.

    ReplyQuote
    Posted : 16/07/2019 3:32 pm
    beached
    (@beached)
    Estimable Member

    Excellent feedback @Selexin. I hope that this helps you make a decision res. looks like you have a little flexibility on the armor. determine what you think will be more valuable.

    ReplyQuote
    Posted : 17/07/2019 6:19 am
    gallow
    (@gallow)
    Reputable Member

    https://classic.wowhead.com/spell=24866/feline-swiftness is so powerful that going to balance/resto trees first would mean gimping your movespeed by at least 5-10 levels, which would slow everything in return.

    ReplyQuote
    Posted : 18/07/2019 1:05 am
    Faendor
    (@faendor)
    Reputable Member
    Selexin
    (@selexin)
    Prominent Member

    This is how I would build it: https://bobo-talents.aerobaticapp.com/?c=druid&t=z_z.z~z-AaAgAhAiAbAcAxIAAIAJAKALAMAuAdAeAfAlAmArAszBAtAvAwApAyAzAAABIBACAq

    I endorse this order entirely. Perfect from my point of view and to suit my playstyle Faendor!

    ReplyQuote
    Posted : 18/07/2019 4:33 am
    Faendor
    (@faendor)
    Reputable Member

    Selexin Glad to hear that ^^

    ReplyQuote
    Posted : 18/07/2019 5:11 am
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